[martinue]

Since Upload now works:
Fernando Wissel
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1340673
Hans-Helmut Hespen
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1340681
Bernd Degner
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1340665

 

[TISUP]

Happy new year to all.

Since 2006 with the start of this fantastic thread (tank you Martin !), it’s time to give results of all SVZ.

With informations from alfabb and others websites, with also my own searches, there were 24 SVZ and SVM.

1) VIN 01849 : Ada Pace rebodied for Ada Pace
2) VIN 01944 : Massimo Girolamo Leto di Priolo rebodied for Massimo Girolamo Leto di Priolo
3) VIN 02158 : Carlo Mario Abate rebodied for Carlo Mario Abate
4) VIN 02289 : Giorgio Suvero rebodied for Casimiro Toselli
5) VIN 02308 : Sergio Bettoja rebodied for Sergio Bettoja
6) VIN 02348 : Marcel Stern rebodied for Marcel Stern or Edgar Berney
7) VIN 02488 : Jean-Pierre Schild rebodied for Jean-Pierre Schild
8) VIN 03249 : Ennio Malinverni rebodied for Virgilio Conrero
9) VIN 03907 : Sergio Pedretti rebodied for Sergio Pedretti
10) VIN 04069 : Egidio Gorza rebodied for Egidio Gorza
11) VIN 04249 : Mario Angiolo rebodied for Dario Sepe
12) VIN 04458 : Sergio Cannara rebodied for Sergio Cannara
13) VIN 04657 : Johan Wax rebodied for Johan Wax
14) VIN 04717 : Bernard Consten & Jean Hébert rebodied for Bernard Consten & Jean Hébert
15) VIN 04718 : Carlo Antonio Mognaschi rebodied for Carlo Antonio Mognaschi
16) VIN 06184 : Pasquale Tacci rebodied for Baldassare Taormina
17) VIN 06936 : Pierre Roueylou rebodied for Pierre Roueylou
18) VIN 08780 : ??? rebodied for Bernard Consten
19) VIN ??? : Kurt Ahrens rebodied for Kurt Ahrens
20) VIN ??? : Jean Valette rebodied for Jean Valette
21) VIN ??? : Jacques Croisier rebodied for Jacques Croisier
22) VIN ??? : ??? rebodied for Arturo Bertoglio

23) VIN ??? : ??? rebodied for Richard Huber on spider shortwheelbase

24) VIN 01819 : Domenico Rabino rebodied by Scaglietti for Domenico Rabino

Pascal

 

[velocedoc]

This is a great body of work that everyone has contributed too, as the information has been a fascinating read.

 

[martinue]

*04045* was resprayed from silver to white but still has nothing to do with Zagato: Alfa Romeo Giulieta SVZ 1957 for sale - PreWarCar

 

[tim buttkus]

Kurt Ahrens senior SVZ

TISUP, All, does anyone have a picture of the damaged Kurt Ahrens SVZ post the accident from 1959 that is mentioned here below ? BR Tim

Hello all,

I have problem with the two SVZ sold new in Germany.

To do short with alfabb and SCARB informations :

1°) VIN 04657
rebodied in svz for Herbert Schultze (registration B-YT 61)
february 60, sold to Bernd Degener or Degner (registration OP-HH 4)
march 61, sold to Ernst Guertsch (registration EM-M 47)
october 62, sold to Wolfgang Steidel (registration EHI-H-1)
november 64 sold to Emil Morgenthaler
1967 sold to Johan Werner Willer
1974 sold to Han Rammensee
today in Axel Marx collection

2°) VIN ???
rebodied in svz for Kurt Ahrens Sr
april 59 sold to Walter Becker
1961 sold to Ernst Ludwig Furtmayr (registration M-LH 515)
1962 sold to Dieter Wipperfurth (registration MA-AX 438)
??? sold to Gerd Schueler then to Weinkoetz

From Martinue, post 542

"A guy named P. Frischkorn from Germany raced very possible the Ahrens car at the GP de Spa, dated May, the 29th 1960.
A Horst Frischkorn had an entry in a Nuerburgring race at the F1 event on July, the 31st the same year, with a SV, possibly a SVZ. I have no result for him"


My problems !

1°) I have an entry in Wartburg rally (october 1960) of a svz with drivers Horst Frischkorn and Günter Pause with registration OP-HH 4

2°) Kurt Ahrens crashed his SVZ in 1959 (Nurburgring practices ???). Pics show the car heavy damages with crooked chassis. Was the car rebuild ?

 

[tim buttkus]

Nice article about Marcel Stern receiving the swiss ACS prize for his listed achievements in 1958 in both his Berlina and his SVZ... BR Tim

 

[TISUP]

TISUP, All, does anyone have a picture of the damaged Kurt Ahrens SVZ post the accident from 1959 that is mentioned here below ? BR Tim

Hello Tim,

My contact from Germany send me picture of Kurt Ahrens crashed in Nurburgring 1959 but no possibility to publish here without his permission.

I think that these picture came from Auto Motor und Sport or another German paper.

There were two adverts in AMS 8 (11 april 1959) and AMS 9 (25 april 1959) for the Kurt Ahrens' SVZ sale, thus before the crash.

There is a entry of Kurt Ahrens in Roosfeld Alpen Bergpreis (14 june 1959) but DNA because his SVZ was crashed.

Il seems doubful that Walter Becker was the next owner of this car (perhaps the next owner of the rest of the svz)

BR

Pévé

 

[tim buttkus]

Dear All,

is it conceivable that Ernst Furtmayer bought his SVZ (1961 campaign, red, normal front, Amadori wheels) from Fernando Wissel (1960 campaign, yellow, normal front, normal wheels), or is it more likely that he could have sourced the car from Richie Huber (1960 campaign, red, Amodori wheels, external filler cap, large air intake)?

Furtmayer told me a couple of years ago that he bought his car from Switzerland... there is not so many options.

BR

Tim

 

[tim buttkus]

I suppose it has been clarified already earlier that Horst Peter Frischkorn's car when campaigned in 1960 (red) belonged to Bernd Degener (registration OP-HH 4) and is 04657 (ex Rammensee).

 

[martinue]

That the Wissel SVZ went to Furtmayr would make sense. The Horst Frischkorn car is most likely the Bernd Degner SVZ *04657* but for the 1960 Rheinland-Pfalz-Preis at the Nuerburgring both drivers were announced with only Degner as participant. Photographs would be helpful

 

[tim buttkus]

Just stumbled across some old notes from 2005 from my phone call with Egbert Waskowitz. This one about 02348 as he saved it from the press in Berlin...

 

[tim buttkus]

...and this one maybe more interesting about a second SVZ that he owned at the same time (early 1970s). Green in colour and in much better condition. Unfortunately, no pictures available... Many, many posts ago I asked if anyone had any explanation for 2 SVZs ended up in Berlin. Just a coincidence ? Anyone out there who might know ? BR Tim

 

[tim buttkus]

Wissel SVZ

Martinue, do you know if a foto exists from Mognaschi participating with his SVZ at the 03.04.1960 Stallavena-Bosco Chiesanuova hillclimb ? Would be nice to rule out that Wissel's car (being watched by Conrero at the same event on start....) was not the same as Mognaschi's (which eventually became Conrero's Goccia…). If both cars were at the start...

Otherwise, a possibility would be that Wissel's car (1960 campaign, definitive shape, yellow, no external filler) was de Leonibus' car (1959, definitive, yellow, no) and Toselli's (1958, definitive, yellow, no), i.e. 02289...

That the Wissel SVZ went to Furtmayr would make sense. The Horst Frischkorn car is most likely the Bernd Degner SVZ *04657* but for the 1960 Rheinland-Pfalz-Preis at the Nuerburgring both drivers were announced with only Degner as participant. Photographs would be helpful

 

[tim buttkus]

Horst Peter Frischkorn SVZ

Martinue, sorry, I don't have a foto of Horst Peter Frischkorn's potentially participation in the event in addition to Degner in 04657, NOR confirmation evidence that he and Degner were acquaintances that normally shared 04657. Perhaps Axel Marx (if he is out there can help). I can ask Hanns Rammensee next time I see him.. BR Tim

That the Wissel SVZ went to Furtmayr would make sense. The Horst Frischkorn car is most likely the Bernd Degner SVZ *04657* but for the 1960 Rheinland-Pfalz-Preis at the Nuerburgring both drivers were announced with only Degner as participant. Photographs would be helpful

 

[martinue]

Yes, Mognaschi was in the 19600403 Stallavena-Boscochiesanuova hillclimb with n. 526.

Wissel would make sense for SVZ *02289* since De Leonibus' entries with the car ended in 1959. For Wissel I found participations at the 1960 Kautenbach, Stallavena-Boscochiesanuova, Bolzano-Mendola and Pontedecimo-Giovi hillclimbs. An unknown entry is the 19601211 Coppa FISA at Monza with "Bilbao". I was told that was a pseudonym of De Leonibus but I am not sure since I have no photo.

 

[tim buttkus]

OK, so that rules out that the Wissel car was Mognaschi's SVZ (that was eventually transferred into the Goccia). Leaves Francesco de Leonibus (02289) or Richie Huber (TBC).

02289 could be plausible (always careful...). Would mean Suvero (I) -> Toselli (SVZ, yellow, I) -> de Leonibus (I) -> Wissel (CH) -> Furtmayer (SVZ, red, D) -> Wipperfuerth (D) -> Schueler (D) -> Weinkoetz (D) until advertisement in AMS 1967.

Would not be the only car that "transferred" across the Alps by mid 1960s (see Gorza, Stern/Berney) as the initial owners in Italy and Switzerland moved on to better, later machinery and more Germans got into amateur racing.

No trace of the Weinkoetz' car post 1967, right ? Would be a pity if it didn't make it.

I still consider it a miracle that 02348 made it. Must dig out a foto of how it was found in Berlin in the early 1970s. Miracle.

 

[tim buttkus]

Found a couple of old fotos when 02348 was stored in Ulm at Hanns Rammensee's workshop. Mid-Late 1970s onwards until restoration for Uli Kaim.

 

[tomkatf]

Does anyone have any information or comments on this SVZ replica in the UK? Looks pretty well done from the photos...

https://www.tomhardman.co.uk/car/alfa-romeo-giulietta-zagato

 

[tim buttkus]

Hmmm. Here are my 2 cents worth:

04045 has been advertised a number of times in the past years. At one stage it was silver with large "Haggerty" advertisements. I have never seen the car, but from these and previous fotos I would say that the body shape does not come very close to the proportions of an original. The rear is too round (like an SZ), the front looks chopped... at least its clear its a replica.

150k GBP. Hmmm. I guess you would have to look at the conditions of the restauration and ascertain if together with the work done on the mechanics the price is justified. I guess you would want to use the cars for racing or rallying (because "showing" is obviously out of the question).

You need to be comfortable owning a replica and factor in that selling will probably take longer.

 

[tomkatf]

Hmmm. Here are my 2 cents worth:

04045 has been advertised a number of times in the past years. At one stage it was silver with large "Haggerty" advertisements. I have never seen the car, but from these and previous fotos I would say that the body shape does not come very close to the proportions of an original. The rear is too round (like an SZ), the front looks chopped... at least its clear its a replica.

150k GBP. Hmmm. I guess you would have to look at the conditions of the restauration and ascertain if together with the work done on the mechanics the price is justified. I guess you would want to use the cars for racing or rallying (because "showing" is obviously out of the question).

You need to be comfortable owning a replica and factor in that selling will probably take longer.

Hi Tim and thanks for taking the time to post up the information and comments, I appreciate it! Yes, I think it's overpriced for a replica at 150k GBP. I didn't know it had been making the rounds... I'm not all that familiar with SVZ variations and thought it looked fairly accurate...